Comments on: Thinking about the John Agresto Lecture http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/ A strong progressive voice in Lubbock, TX Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:16:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Kirk Berryhill http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-104 Kirk Berryhill Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:48:15 +0000 http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-104 Hmm.. I dont think that Americans, on the whole, are committed to provide food, clothing and shelter for Iraqis OR our fellow Americans. In Iraq, quite like in New Orleans, the whole reconstruction effort appears to be a sham, just a large pyramid scheme for the military industrial complex and a trickle down effect on Conservative contractors who got in on the scam. No one cares to rebuild anything. Its just how much money they can make before they get the hell out of dodge. It's a big funnel for Bush-connected businesses to make quick cash and attempt to hold onto the oil of Iraq. Of course they desire no true stability in Iraq. What would a strong leader who has control of Iraq do? Step one would be to control his own country's resources. Step two would be to say Thank you for your help, you can leave now. The United States CANNOT have that. For the PNAC/Neocon plan in the middle east to work, THERE CAN BE NO FULLY INDEPENDENT COUNTRIES. The plan calls for American bases, permanent ones, at strategic points along the Oil rich territories. It calls for American control of the Oil=- Which is borne out in the new oil contracts that the Iraqis are refusing to sign, which give EXXON MOBIL and CHEVRON and company control of the oil. 4,000 Americans died so that EXXON could control Iraq's Oil? Hell, If we are going to steal It- AT LEAST LET US STEAL IT- Not give it to Exxon so they can overcharge Americans for it!!!! This is a complete farce for Americans, and it should be obvious if so many Americans could actually be bothered to concern themselves with the details. But it's far worse for the people who we are supposed to be "Saving".. 1 million estimated dead now, 3 million left the country. Those who are left are those either too poor to leave or with ties to local warlords or milking the contractors as the contractors milk the U.S. government. We have brought them a level of bloodshed, rape, travesty, and horror far beyond that of Saddam, the leader we helped put in charge of Iraq with our meddling in the first place. Hmm.. I dont think that Americans, on the whole, are committed to provide food, clothing and shelter for Iraqis OR our fellow Americans. In Iraq, quite like in New Orleans, the whole reconstruction effort appears to be a sham, just a large pyramid scheme for the military industrial complex and a trickle down effect on Conservative contractors who got in on the scam. No one cares to rebuild anything. Its just how much money they can make before they get the hell out of dodge. It’s a big funnel for Bush-connected businesses to make quick cash and attempt to hold onto the oil of Iraq. Of course they desire no true stability in Iraq. What would a strong leader who has control of Iraq do? Step one would be to control his own country’s resources. Step two would be to say Thank you for your help, you can leave now. The United States CANNOT have that. For the PNAC/Neocon plan in the middle east to work, THERE CAN BE NO FULLY INDEPENDENT COUNTRIES. The plan calls for American bases, permanent ones, at strategic points along the Oil rich territories. It calls for American control of the Oil=- Which is borne out in the new oil contracts that the Iraqis are refusing to sign, which give EXXON MOBIL and CHEVRON and company control of the oil. 4,000 Americans died so that EXXON could control Iraq’s Oil? Hell, If we are going to steal It- AT LEAST LET US STEAL IT- Not give it to Exxon so they can overcharge Americans for it!!!! This is a complete farce for Americans, and it should be obvious if so many Americans could actually be bothered to concern themselves with the details. But it’s far worse for the people who we are supposed to be “Saving”.. 1 million estimated dead now, 3 million left the country. Those who are left are those either too poor to leave or with ties to local warlords or milking the contractors as the contractors milk the U.S. government. We have brought them a level of bloodshed, rape, travesty, and horror far beyond that of Saddam, the leader we helped put in charge of Iraq with our meddling in the first place.

]]> By: Lubbock Left http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-98 Lubbock Left Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:08:00 +0000 http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-98 Sue: You're right. Establishing a democracy in Iraq was never a top reason for invading until the other reasons proved invalid. The talk was interesting to me because it showed one Bush crony's process of realization that even that reason for invading is invalid. Danna: Good points. I honestly have no idea if the anger of the Iraqi people is more cultural or more a rational response to circumstances. I suspect it's some of both. What has always bothered me about this whole invasion is how it highlights American shortcomings here at home while no one does anything about them. We seem to work harder at giving Iraqis food, clothing, and shelter than we do for our own people. We seem to be more serious about universal health care and access to higher education for Iraqis than for Americans. Just a fraction of what we spend on Iraq could go toward curing so many social ills here in America. Sue: You’re right. Establishing a democracy in Iraq was never a top reason for invading until the other reasons proved invalid. The talk was interesting to me because it showed one Bush crony’s process of realization that even that reason for invading is invalid.

Danna: Good points. I honestly have no idea if the anger of the Iraqi people is more cultural or more a rational response to circumstances. I suspect it’s some of both. What has always bothered me about this whole invasion is how it highlights American shortcomings here at home while no one does anything about them. We seem to work harder at giving Iraqis food, clothing, and shelter than we do for our own people. We seem to be more serious about universal health care and access to higher education for Iraqis than for Americans. Just a fraction of what we spend on Iraq could go toward curing so many social ills here in America.

]]> By: Danna http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-91 Danna Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:03:10 +0000 http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-91 I wasn't at the talk, but his characterization seems slanted. It appears to portray fundamentalist Muslims as the predominant citizens of Iraq. I would venture that many Iraqis are not fundamentalist in their thinking (though the Iraqi middle and upper classes have fled) .It seems to me that when a society is torn apart and into shreds as the US occupation has done, the anger of the citizens drive them to extremes. When Iraqis were left without jobs while foriegn workers were imported in because they would do the job for less, rage is the result (currently still 50% unemployment). When American companies are contracted with instead of Iraqi companies, and Iraqi businesses are left high and dry, rage is the result. When the occupying force fails to get infrastructure going after four years, rage is the result. And if anybody there had been thinking about it, they could have expected the rage. Did the rage benifit them? Its a puzzle. But because the Iraqi people are enraged now, does not mean that they are naturally that way; they simply have some real good reason to be now. I wasn’t at the talk, but his characterization seems slanted. It appears to portray fundamentalist Muslims as the predominant citizens of Iraq. I would venture that many Iraqis are not fundamentalist in their thinking (though the Iraqi middle and upper classes have fled) .It seems to me that when a society is torn apart and into shreds as the US occupation has done, the anger of the citizens drive them to extremes. When Iraqis were left without jobs while foriegn workers were imported in because they would do the job for less, rage is the result (currently still 50% unemployment). When American companies are contracted with instead of Iraqi companies, and Iraqi businesses are left high and dry, rage is the result. When the occupying force fails to get infrastructure going after four years, rage is the result. And if anybody there had been thinking about it, they could have expected the rage. Did the rage benifit them? Its a puzzle. But because the Iraqi people are enraged now, does not mean that they are naturally that way; they simply have some real good reason to be now.

]]> By: Sue http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-89 Sue Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:17:09 +0000 http://lubbockleft.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-the-john-agresto-lecture/#comment-89 Your point in the last paragraph is THE point. Agresto blew around a lot of idealism about democracy but we know that that only came up as about the fourth reason we were there. We know the real reason we went to Iraq. Agresto also didn't approve of Iraq's European type of university system, calling it too rigid. He seemed to prize more than anything else he did there managing to get a change in major for the sister of his translator. He is concerned for the Iraqi people who work with the Americans. He favors allowing all to immigrate to the U.S. He seemed to be very sure none of them would pose a security threat. I didn't buy his book because I'd heard the story before. He had a role in another book--one I actually read--Imperial Life in the Emerald City, as a Bush crony appointed to a post over his head. Sort of the Brownie of higher education in Iraq. Your point in the last paragraph is THE point. Agresto blew around a lot of idealism about democracy but we know that that only came up as about the fourth reason we were there. We know the real reason we went to Iraq. Agresto also didn’t approve of Iraq’s European type of university system, calling it too rigid. He seemed to prize more than anything else he did there managing to get a change in major for the sister of his translator. He is concerned for the Iraqi people who work with the Americans. He favors allowing all to immigrate to the U.S. He seemed to be very sure none of them would pose a security threat. I didn’t buy his book because I’d heard the story before. He had a role in another book–one I actually read–Imperial Life in the Emerald City, as a Bush crony appointed to a post over his head. Sort of the Brownie of higher education in Iraq.

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