The Worst Editorial
When it comes to the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal Editorial Board, sometimes I agree and sometimes I disagree. However, Friday’s A-J editorial is without question the worst editorial I can recall.
The argument for torture is a losing argument at whatever level of detail you care to examine it.
At a conceptual level, it’s simple. Torture is morally wrong. Torture is illegal — not just in the US but all over the world and in agreements between nations. Torture is a criminal act.
This is not even a debate we should be having in modern society — the belief that torture is wrong should be assumed as a pre-condition of being “civilized.”
The nuances plied by the right in their argument for torture don’t stand up to scrutiny either.
“We torture because it’s effective.” No, it isn’t effective. We get more and better results through other methods.
“We torture because it gets results.” (1) Yeah, right. (2) If there are good results, they could be had by other means. (3) It’s not worth becoming bad guys to get what we want. “The ends justify the means” does not exactly embody high moral fiber.
“”We only torture terrorists.” Well gee, with no due process at Gitmo or anywhere “enemy combatants” are held, how can we be sure that we got the right guys, much less that they are evil men?
“The atmosphere of the time made it ok.” Try that one in a court of law or with your family.
I don’t mean to be stuck on this awful subject, but I was so infuriated when I saw my hometown newspaper endorse acts of evil that I had to write something.
A-J Editorial Board, you ought to fire yourselves over this one.
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May 9th, 2009 at 12:51 am
I do not believe the use of force should be used as a day-to-day technique for interrogation. I do, however, believe that the use of force can be used in exigent circumstances. That is to say, if lives are at stake and time is of the essence then I think intelligence officers should be permitted to use force or the credible threat of the use of force.
And not only do I think physical force can be justified in exigent circumstances, but I also believe that psychological force can be justified in exigent circumstances.
I do not believe any use of force should be deadly or should cause (or likely to cause) death, disfigurement, or permanent psychological damage. But if there’s a plot to detonate a dirty bomb in New York or Los Angeles and our best intelligence shows that we only have a few hours to intercept it, then I think we can and should use the least amount of physical force necessary to get the answers we need.
You would rather 10 million people (give or take) be the target of a terrorist attack rather than rough up a known member of an international terrorist ring? Granted, I’m not that smart, but I can’t understand that line of logic (if logic is the right word).
Our TV shows portray (and I think accurately so) police officers roughing up suspects to get answers in heinous crimes such as child sexual abuse. Not one person finds that offensive. But throw a punch at a guy who plots to kill millions of Americans and “whoa, that’s evil.” Ay ayant thet smert, n ay jus don git it.
There is an argument that torture is not the most effective method of getting accurate information during interrogation. But the credible threat of the use of force can be quite effective.
Does that make me evil? Not from my point of view.
If my children are in the hands of international terrorists and their lives are imminently threatened then, yes, by all means throw a good solid right hook at one of their co-conspirators. Water-boarding? Maybe. Tazing? Maybe. Trick him into thinking his own family has been murdered and mutilated by showing him photoshopped pictures? Maybe.
And I suppose that you now believe that what I have written here would qualify as the “second worst” editorial in the history of Lubbock Texas.
Oh well. At least I’m still alive to read you complain about it.
May 10th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Thanks for the comment — I thought people forgot all about good ol’ lubbockleft.com (compared to the lubbockonline verson). :)
I think psychological methods of interrogation should be on the table. At least, I can’t imagine a psychological method that I would oppose.
From what I’ve read, mind games are always more effective than inflicting physical pain when it comes to interrogation (or pretty much anything else, for that matter).
I think TV shows and movies where torture is displayed as an accurate and effective method of obtaining information are not based on reality and do our national discourse a disservice. People see “24″ or “Taken” or some tough guy cop show and think that beating people up to get information works or that it’s an OK thing to do. It doesn’t and it isn’t.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I’m with you Kenny. Did the fascist A-J ban you for the content of your blog?
May 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
I hope the A-J goes under, rotten fascist pigs.
May 11th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
fatassdaddy
your a moron
May 11th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
TV programs are FICTIONAL, this means they were made up by someone’s imagination, they are not real life scenarios, we don’t have film crews following us around, at least I don’t, if you do, I advise IMMEDIATE psychiatric counseling.
May 11th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
hey dave — the lubbockonline version of my blog should be restored “soon”
May 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Brother Dave. Let me see if get this straight. I acknowledged that fictional TV shows are fictional in my earlier post. But you advise me to get immediate psychiatric counseling.
You refer to me as fassASSdaddy (emphasis mine). But you advise me to get immediate psychiatric counseling.
You tried to call me a moron but you couldn’t get your grammar right long enough to do it. You stated, “your a moron”. And you advise me to get psychiatric counseling.
You refer to the A-J as as “rotten fascist pigs” and instead of saying you hope to sway their opinions or bring about positive change you say “I hope the A-J goes under.” But you have gall to say that I need immediate psychiatric counseling.
Brother Dave, I won’t advise you to get counseling. Instead, I’ll suggest that you start hanging out with Clif Burnett. You’ll be birds of a feather, chums and maybe even identical twins. Here’s a link to his site: http://lubbockcountyregister.blogspot.com/
I thought this was a website for a “strong progressive voice” in Lubbock Texas. I must be such a moron that I thought progressive meant something other than name calling and mindlessly hoping for other’s people’s demise.
You go right on opposing torture, Brother Dave. Your tactics are right on the mark. Good job.
May 11th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
You know what, Brother Dave? I take it back. When my boys were younger, about three years old or so, they would throw temper tantrums to get their way. Often the best way to respond to a temper tantrum is to ignore it. Consider yourself ignored.